Just sent them a donation. Such an irony that they are being attacked as a "charedi" institution because they aren't.

That's a very excellent job of putting the real facts before the public - as always, יישר כחך, Rafi.

I do want to repeat a comment I made on the earlier post, though (slightly edited). This whole story certainly does sound like this is part of what could be termed a "witch hunt," based on bad and biased reporting, and outside organizations with an anti-religious agenda. And it is very sad that a good and worthwhile institution is suffering.

However, I think there's another point here. If women presenters are not included in a conference because of religious sensibilities - even if it only happens at one particular conference - that will have a tendency to reduce the professional utility of the women involved. Carry that over to the army, advertisements, and whatever other field you care to mention, and one should be able to see why the secular world, women in particular, feel threatened by increasing humrot with regards to women and modesty, combined with the increasing size and role of the religious population in institutions such as the army and the medical profession.

Although this particular event seems like a very poor example, it still illustrates why the larger concern in the secular world with the place of women in the religious world is a legitimate concern from their point of view, and not just blindly anti-religious propaganda. And we'd have to be blind to say that there hasn't been a trend to the right in the matters in both the haredi and the dati worlds, at least in Israel.

Now, this particular conference, and this particular organization seem to be a very poor target for this concern. But as more and more datim and haredim become integrated into the general society, I think it is fair for the general society to start asking "if we give in here, then what?" If we give in at this conference, what will happen when the religious professionals among us demand that no women speak at another conference? What will happen when whole battalions refuse to serve under female officers or listen to female instructors?

I don't think there are easy answers for these questions. But I do think that these questions provide at least one response to the answer that some people give about humras - what difference does it make if I want to keep a humra? The difference it makes is that when enough people start keeping certain humras, and enough people start confusing humras with halacha (as the proponents of segregated buses have sometimes done), it makes the process of dealing with genuine conflicts between halacha and the norms of the general society around us that much more difficult.

Yasher Koach for posting this. I feel bad for the doctors involved who got unintentionally tarnished by this whole mess.

Thank you for posting this and translating it! I plan to forward it to many people I know who have been misled about Puah and the conference.

Thanks for Posting Rafi.

I know the Rabbinic Advisor to Machon Puah, Rabbi Weitzman who lives here in Modi'in and is the Rav of the shul I davened in when I lived in that part of the city.

I have heard women speakers at rav Weitzman's shul, so I am certain that he doesn't regard excluding women speakers as a Halachic requirement, rather it is a clear compromize to allow the maximum number of people to benifit from this very important conference.

A few small things:

LI - who have been misled about Puah and the conference.

I'm not sure what you mean by "misled"? The only story I saw asserted that Machon Puah isn't permitting qualified women doctors to present at their conference. And that is apparently a fact.

shidduchim for people with special needs
שידוכים לאנשים עם צרכים מיוחדים

I'm not quite sure what he is referring to here. Does he mean shidduchim in general, or helping make shidduchim for those who have known problems regarding producing children?

For 11 years that was acceptable to the public and to the doctors with no problems.

11 years? Ha! For 60 years the IDF has had female singers periodically without any problems :-)

and I repeat, if you don't want to play by democratic rules, then don't take gov't funds.

It's not a lot of money they say.

So don't take it.

But you can't have it both ways.

It's a lot like the people who knock israel at every turn and have no problem using the health care and roads and subsidies and social programs etc.. but god forbid they should show some hakoras hatov

To the Way
Puah has helped 100's of couples and individuals. I know, as my wife is a nurse who has worked with many "Puah" people. Why on earth should they not take money from the government, when they help all types (Chiloni and religious) Israeli citizens. Who really cares if a few female doctors cannot talk in front of the rabbis. If these qualified female doctors ( I'm sure there are many)really feel there advise and knowledge is so important, let them tape it and most rabbis would not have a problem listening to the tape and then call them if they had any questions.There are many different ways for the female doctors opinions to be heard.

anon,

we have competing ideologies.

You clearly don't understand where I am coming from because if you did you would recognize that having other ways for women to get the word out is not good enough.

Just like the women in the audience have to pass notes if they want to ask a question but men can use their voice.

All of which is fine, (not really but whatever) if you're privately funded.

But equal rights is just that, equal. I don't have equal rights if others are being discriminated against.

And even deeper, I believe that this form of sexism (and racism) can and will ultimately destroy Israel if not battled against.

And since I live here and would rather not see Israel be destroyed.

My ideology informs me that equal rights and creating more separations between church and state are the issues which will make Israel stronger.

It might not mean anything to you, but either Israel is a democracy or it isn't. And the hallmark of a democracy is equal rights. Just voting does not make a democracy.

Way - is there never a justifiable situation for an all mens or all womens event?

According to Machon PUAH's statement, almost all their events and conferences include women presenters. This single conference is the only one in which they dont, and never have, invited female presenters. They have a reason for it.

Is there never a situation in which having only men or only women is justifiable?

Way,
Equality at least i.m.h.o., doesn't mean equal in everything. Can I walk into the ladies toilet at Ben-Gurion because they are funded by the Gov. why not? You're taking my rights away!!!All around the world, their are separate things for ladies and men. This does not necessarily make them non-democratic.I too live in Israel, and have no problem not being invited to something because I am a male.
Bottom line in Israel, do women have the same rights as man?? I think they do , thank G-D.

Rafi - I think you are right - except that in the context of the demand for segregated buses, the kol isha incidents in the army, and the removal of woman from advertisements in Jerusalem, the non-haredi/hardal public is entitled to wonder where they will end up having to draw the line. Puah and this conference may have been a poor choice to make this point, and an innocent victim, but as Rabbi Slifkin phrased it in a different context, there is an element of "chickens coming home to roost" in this. It's just a shame the chickens are doing their thing on a good organization like Puah.

rafi,

let's use meah sheariim sukkah as an example.

They put up separate exits and entrances and women walk on one side of the road and men on the other.

Despite the supreme court saying this is illegal.

I have no problem if they want to have separate seating. Let them go renta a plot of land and put up a sukkah, using private funds on private land.

The same is true of the busses.

Go build a privately funded bus line if you want separate seating.

I have no problem with separate seating in private places, like your privately funded shul or school or event.

I am even ok with publicly funded events just for me or just for women... after all, this is the real world and there is a lot of grey and at times there are events where people need to feel safe and still be informed.

HOWEVER, despite Pua's good works, to have an event which includes women but they cannot talk, they need to pass notes to have them read by a man, and equal professionals cannot speak, while not being the most clear cut example, like the bus issue, certainly raises the issue of gender equality.

Perhaps they should have a conference just for men and another one just for women. But to have women sitting there silent... well if you want a conference like that than don't take public funds. You can do it, just privately.
But I argue for a separation of church and state. Which I believe protects the rights of religious and secular.

And to Anon,

To compare mixed seating to protecting an individuals right to privacy in the bathroom is just silly at best and downright dishonest at worst.

Do women have equal rights in Israel? for the most part yes. But right now Israel, like jews worldwide and for thousands of years, is majority non-orthodox. If we are having these battles now when the charedii sector is, let's say 10%, what will happen in 10 years when they are 20% ?

To the Way.
I'm only referring to the Puah event and nothing else. My point is , is that equality doesn't mean everything is always equal. Just because ladies cannot speak in front of a group of men is not reason enough to stop government help, when they help all people including and especially women.

Then perhaps pua should have separate events for men and women altogether. But to have women present as second class citizens is not acceptable on govt funds.

Explain to me again why it's ok for men to talk but not women?

And since most communication is non verbal, maybe the burqa women are right.

Lastly, when a gov't funded organization has a conference where men in the audience can speak and women, on the other side of the mechitza, have to pass notes up to the front to be asked by a man, you can't just say that this is just about pua and has no connection to all the other instances where extremists are encroaching on equal rights while using govt funds.

I think Machon Puah is a victim of the old saw, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Machon Puah itself is a non-discriminatory organization that does wonderful work and has conferences that are open to both men and women. In an effort to spread their knowledge and good deeds amongst the Chareidi community, they arranged one conference that would meet Chareidi standards with respect to the presenters and audience behaviour. Because of the current climate (largely self-created by the actions of the Chareidi community), Machon Puah, which was only trying to be sensitive, has had its reputation unfairly besmirched.

I wish Machon Puah nothing but Hatzlacha in their endevours.