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Mar 5, 2009

Chillul Hashem La'Mehadrin

An Anonymous Guest Post


Yesterday my wife got on the #14 Superbus by the RBS-Bet shopping center. Note the #14 bus _is not_ a mehadrin bus, and passes through all of Beit Shemesh, RBS-B, and RBS-A.

She duly got on the front of the bus and paid, and had to walk towards the rear to find seating. She then watched as several RBS-B ladies got on through the rear door, did not pay and sat themselves down in the back. She watched this happen multiple times as the bus headed up the hill, women getting on and usually off after a few stops - often taking significant time (with strollers and young children, B"H) - just not paying.

That evening she was discussing this at our dinner table. I jokingly said to my daughters "so there you see, if you don't have any money no need to worry about paying for the bus, being female just get on through the rear door and don't pay". My older daughter responded, "I can't do such a thing, I'm frum."

We speculated on what is going on here. Kav schut, possibly all these ladies have monthly bus passes and are just not taking the time to show them. Since the #14 is not a mehadrin bus (neither by custom, community standard nor company policy), I don't understand why the bus driver is allowing rear entry and not checking passes or payment.

Kind of makes you feel like a frier.

That said, if these women are taking advantage of the new bus company (who doesn't want to rile up the community by requiring front bus door entry?) then we have a situation of a community chumra violating a halacha d'orisa.

My daughter also noted that in Jerusalem, Egged has deployed a heavy presence of bus inspectors SPECIFICALLY on the charedi busy bus lines. They are going through the whole crowd requiring receipts, examining card punches against the driver's punch, and being very thorough. The fact Egged would feel a need to target charedi busy lines is a Chillul Hashem. Yet I would seem to begin to understand why.

There are some cultural historical reasons that have lead Jewish communities to have to avoid government rules just to survive, far to many such lessons from the Eastern European past. But I suspect, besides the direct act itself, people are hurting themselves here. When Superbus comes back in a year or two and says they can't be profitable on the routes - or can't allow mehadrin due to the losses, wait for the riots to start. But the foundation of the problem started now.


  1. I see the same thing in Jerusalem. I saw one girl this week actually PRETEND to punch something then walk to the back. I watched her, and let her know I was watching her. Boy, was she red-faced.

  2. ירמיה ט

    Jeremiah 9

    ב וַיַּדְרְכוּ אֶת-לְשׁוֹנָם קַשְׁתָּם שֶׁקֶר, וְלֹא לֶאֱמוּנָה גָּבְרוּ בָאָרֶץ: כִּי מֵרָעָה אֶל-רָעָה יָצָאוּ וְאֹתִי לֹא-יָדָעוּ, נְאֻם-יְהוָה. 2 And they bend their tongue, their bow of falsehood; and they are grown mighty in the land, but not for truth; for they proceed from evil to evil, and Me they know not, saith the LORD.
    ג אִישׁ מֵרֵעֵהוּ הִשָּׁמֵרוּ, וְעַל-כָּל-אָח אַל-תִּבְטָחוּ: כִּי כָל-אָח עָקוֹב יַעְקֹב, וְכָל-רֵעַ רָכִיל יַהֲלֹךְ. 3 Take ye heed every one of his neighbour, and trust ye not in any brother; for every brother acteth subtly, and every neighbour goeth about with slanders.
    ד וְאִישׁ בְּרֵעֵהוּ יְהָתֵלּוּ, וֶאֱמֶת לֹא יְדַבֵּרוּ; לִמְּדוּ לְשׁוֹנָם דַּבֶּר-שֶׁקֶר, הַעֲוֵה נִלְאוּ. 4 And they deceive every one his neighbour, and truth they speak not; they have taught their tongue to speak lies, they weary themselves to commit iniquity.
    ה שִׁבְתְּךָ, בְּתוֹךְ מִרְמָה; בְּמִרְמָה מֵאֲנוּ דַעַת-אוֹתִי, נְאֻם-יְהוָה. {ס} 5 Thy habitation is in the midst of deceit; through deceit they refuse to know Me, saith the LORD. {S}
    ו לָכֵן, כֹּה אָמַר יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, הִנְנִי צוֹרְפָם, וּבְחַנְתִּים: כִּי-אֵיךְ אֶעֱשֶׂה, מִפְּנֵי בַּת-עַמִּי. 6 Therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts: behold, I will smelt them, and try them; for how else should I do, because of the daughter of My people?
    ז חֵץ שוחט (שָׁחוּט) לְשׁוֹנָם, מִרְמָה דִבֵּר; בְּפִיו, שָׁלוֹם אֶת-רֵעֵהוּ יְדַבֵּר, וּבְקִרְבּוֹ, יָשִׂים אָרְבּוֹ. 7 Their tongue is a sharpened arrow, it speaketh deceit; one speaketh peaceably to his neighbour with his mouth, but in his heart he layeth wait for him.
    ח הַעַל-אֵלֶּה לֹא-אֶפְקָד-בָּם, נְאֻם-יְהוָה; אִם בְּגוֹי אֲשֶׁר-כָּזֶה, לֹא תִתְנַקֵּם נַפְשִׁי. {ס} 8 Shall I not punish them for these things? saith the LORD; shall not My soul be avenged on such a nation as this? {S}

  3. And the charedi community wonders why other communities in Israel can't stand them?

  4. The author is being too gentle. This is community accepted (as shown by the multiple perpetrators)crime. Gezel gamor. Gezel L'mehadrin.

    And this isn't because of a 'chumra'. A humra has to have a halachic basis that necessitates it. What's more, a humra can't be imposed on others over whom one has no particular authority.

    This is a crime being perpetrated by people whose community has developed a sociopathic attitude. Sickness and crime. Plain and simple.

  5. What happened to being don lechaf z'chus?

  6. B"H

    In Jerusalem they have hole punchers in the back. The women always flash their passes to the driver's mirror. I am told that sometimes they don't, if they recognize the driver.

    Anyway, strollers are easier to load through the wider back doors anyway. Maybe the women just assumed it was Mehadrin bus. When they see that there isn't a hole puncher they should do something, though, whether it's take it up themselves, or at least have a little boy whose enough take the care or money up to the driver,...LIKE it's done in Jerusalem.

    I would like to hear some experiences of those in Bnei Braq. I've only been on regular buses there.

  7. I can only say what I have heard and seen, and i have NEVER heard or seen anything like this.

    This is definately not some community organized gezel organization. Please dont make it out as much. Thats just absurd.

    And this is not the reason wy the chilonim hate the Chareidim. The hatred runs much deeper than to be able to pin it on a specific action. It has to do with having a guilty conscience bc you realize that chillul shabbos eating treif isnt all its made out to be and its not making them happy. They hoped to be rid of those "ghetto" jews in the holocaust and thru thesecularization of the state, and by golly, they just keep gettign bigger and bigger

  8. The exhortation ladun l'chaf z'chut doesn't include closing one's eyes to social patterns or currents; nor does it require self-deception or naivite in order to accept an unacceptable situation. What's more, it presupposes some knowledge or indicator that there is reason ladun l'chaf z'chut. Simply observing that someone wears a particular costume or uniform (or doesn't)supplies no real information about the person's history or behaviour.

    Too often, IMO, 'being dan l'chaf z'chut' is used as an excuse for abdicating responsibility. Sometimes, we must judge a situation and protest or take action.

    If anything, the wild, violent, and very un-Torah-like behaviours coming out of some of the Hareidi community give reason not to resort to presuming the z'chut. I'm sorry to say that, but right in Beit Shemesh it has gotten frightening at times. And we aren't talking about small numbers of incidents or small numbers of people. Something has gone culturally wrong, and the evidence is out there for all to see. Hillul Hashem L'mehadrin, indeed.

  9. Mordechai,

    Excellent point. I would add that the silence on the part of the (even anglo) Charedi rabbonim in response to these behaviors is just as frightening.

    As my mashgiach used tp say..if you don't protest to the avla you are alos guilty.

  10. Chilul HaShem LeMehadrin?

    That is when one organization violates the private property of another.

    In addition to the eye sore that the bottle posters make on the Lemaán Achai fence it is a chutzpa to use the property of the competition.

    Shame on KST for defacing Lemaán Achai's fence with their posters.

  11. Anon of 1:43-

    Get a life. So what if the Kupa takes the space of Lemaán Achai.

    Kupa should have been given that land by the city instead of Lemaán Achai. Lemaán Achai's time is coming to an end. Only Kupa can do tzedaka correctly.

    Perhaps now with Moshe Abutbol and Gimmel in power the rightful owners will get it.

  12. Bottom line: the modern day erev rav associated with lemaan achai are a dying breed, Boruch Hash-m! Anyone can see that there moraly bankrupt communitees are declining (like their schvartze president Hussein Obama is driving the us economy bankrupt), and not a minute two soon. hopefully Rav Moshe Abuboul can get the rest of them to move to modiin or efrat or wherever, build ramat bet shemesh gimmel for the type of people that desrve it, and Bet Shemesh can become a true city of Kedusha!

    wow, writing hateful troll comments really is fun!

  13. Interesting tidbit: the first captcha I got was "monos". Has any one seen sholoch?


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