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Apr 25, 2010

Neturei Karta apologizes

I can't believe I am doing this, but I was sort of impressed, and definitely surprised, by this clarification, insulting as it is, sent out on the Neturei Karta email list that I felt like sharing it...

The original in Hebrew:
לגבי גיליון "משמרת היהדות" (וכיו"ב), כל מקום שנכתב שם "ציונים" הכוונה היא על משטר הרשע הציוני המוביל את עם בנ"י כולו להרג ואבדון גשמי ורוחני רח"ל, ואין כמובן כוונה על סתם המוני תמימים ופשוטי העם וכו' אשר אינם יודעים מאומה בעוה"ר מימינם ומשמאלם.
וכן מטרת הפגנת הצפירה וכו', היא למרוד בשלטון הרשע הציוני הרוצה לבלוע חי את העם היהודי כולו, להפר את חוקיו ו"קדושתו" האווילית, ולהצהיר הן כלפי יהודים והן כלפי גויים, שיהודים הנאמנים לתורת ישראל אינם נשמעים ואינם יכולים להשמע, לחוקי הסדום שנוסדו ע"י בני בליעל מעמנו, העוברים ומחללים בשאט נפש את כל התורה כולה.
אך אין כל כוונה או מטרה בפני עצמה בעת ההליכה בצפירה, לצער חלילה אנשים שקרוביהם נהרגו על מזבח הציונות והמרידה האסורה באומות, לא מצינו בכל התורה כולה שיש "מצווה" כזאת.
בכל הכבוד, המפיצים

My translation to English:
Regarding the issue of Mishmeret Hayahdut (note: their weekly newsletter), wherever it says "tzionim" it refers to the evil tziyoni government that is leading bnei yisroel to destruction both physical and spiritual and we have no intention to refer to the masses of simple people that don't know a thing or their right from their left...
As well, our protest of the siren is intended to rebel against the evil tziyoni government that want to swallow up the Jewish people.. blah blah blah... but we have no intention or objective by walking during the siren to cause any pain, God forbid, to people who's relatives were killed on the altar of Zionism and of rebelling against the nations. In all of the Torah there is no such mitzva to do that.

I am surprised they had the sensitivity to differentiate between the government and the people and basically apologized for insulting anyone unintentionally... Crazy way to say it, but they said it...


  1. Is there such a thing as an "unintentional" sin before G-d? And how do the holy ones before Him set an example for the rest of B'nai Yisrael when they do not comport themselves with dignity before the Most High?

  2. Talking of extremism, did anyone witness Rav Malinowitz' unprovoked verbal attack on David Morris yesterday in BTYA?!

  3. Norman, yes there is such a thing as an unintentional sin. People make mistakes.

    Anon, "witness?" I was there for his morning drasha. Was it then? What are you talking about?

  4. There's a Neturei Karta email list? They don't forbid using the internet?

    Rafi, are you on this list, or did someone forward this to you?

  5. Wanna Saab: "What are you talking about?"

    I heard that Rabbi Malinowitz started shouting insults at David Morris in BT around mincha time on shabbos.

    Can anyone verify this?

    Any idea what may have caused it?

  6. Is Malinowitz losing it? First his cherem against Lema'an Achai. The he goes at David Morris on the blogs. Then of course his mikve stance and attacks on a woman through the emails(got him in alot of hot water..hahaha).

    And now a public verbal attack against an upstanding pillar of the RBS community (which by the way he is NOT a member of).

    I can't believe that a rav of his stature would behave in such a way.

    I hope that BTYA wakes up to smell the coffee before he brings the whole kehilla over the cliff with him.

  7. RBSA Mikve for AllApril 25, 2010 12:06 PM

    Great Kiddush HaShem piece in the JP today.

    Thank you Rabbis of RBSA.

    What ever happened to "talmidei chochomim marbeh shalom"?


  8. I'm confused - what DID Rav Malinowitz say to David Morris?

  9. I was one of many people who saw this incident. It was right before Mincha on shabbes afternoon, so there were a lot of us around.

    David Morris quietly wished Rav Malinowitz a good shabbes. Rav Malinowitz quietly returned the greeting.

    And then Rav Malinowitz went back to David and loudly said he hadn't meant to wish David good shabbes at all, it had been a mistake.

    Rav Malinowitz then started calling David names.

    I heard "Rosha" and "jackass". He said it loud - we all heard.
    Rav Malinowitz started ranting about David being "dangerous".

    David was pleasant and civil throughout, and even finished the exchange with a quiet "good shabbes" again.

  10. ................

  11. Lost for Words, you obviously don't go to BT much. Just add this to the long list of obscure and increasingly confusing rants the members seem to enjoy each week. The kehilla should call a vote!

  12. I am amazed that all you BT sheep/drones continue to follow this Shepard. I know most of you come from more modern backgrounds and tend to eat all things "chareidi" up, but PLEASE, start thinking for yourselves a bit. All you have created is an isolated "America" here in Israel with a leader who seems to be teetering on the brink of I don't know what. You have good people in your kehilla. A Rabbi does not have a lifetime contract. Wake up and take your shul back.

  13. A Spade a SpadeApril 25, 2010 4:31 PM

    Part of the confusion in BT about Rav Malinowitz, is that he's not a classic chareidi.

    You see, his stand on Eretz Yisrael/Gush Katif/Chevron, Rav Slifkin, SR, Otzar Beis Din, etc... seem like classic (even extreme) DL causes.

    Whereas, his stand on the mikva, schools, child abuse, beating up recalcitrant husbands, etc..seem classic (even extreme) chareidi causes.

    So the mainly-Balei-Teshuva or ex-Modern kehilla find Rav Malinowitz exciting, charismatic and fascinating.

    But there is a constant factor here.

    Rav Malinowitz is an extremist.

    On Eretz Yisrael, he's Kahanist.

    On the Mikva and Child Abuse he's firmly with the kanoim.

    In his behavior he is temperamental, stubborn - and, let's face it, abusive.

    Rav Malinowitz charisma, learning and speaking powers have been important in building up BTYA.

    But his creation of a personality-cult, has no place in RBS. It's time for BTYA to see through their misty adoration - and now (respectfully and caringly) help Rav Malinowitz focus on his sefarim, and pack his bags.

  14. The sad thing is that a community like Bais Tefillah should be dragged into a controversy such as this because of the extremism of their rabbi, Rabbi Chaim Malinowitz. To me he seems like a wolf in sheep's clothing-but that clothing is starting to fray especially when he threatens others who disagree with him with horrible,vile language.

    Bai Tefillah, wake up and smell the coffee. Many of you daven there because you justifiably like many othe people there. But, don't let the attraction of the shul allow you to get sucked into a maelstrom of fanaticism.

    Bais Tefillah, yes you can choose normalcy!

    Bais Tefillah, yes you can choose peaceful coexistence with other opinions!

    Bais Tefillah, yes you can choose to be that which you always were until you started to be tugged in another direction!

    Bais Tefillah, yes you can choose your own identity and not be forced to go the way of Satmar-like craziness!

    Bais Tefillah-yes you can!

  15. Believe me, there are many people in Beis Tefillah who do not condone the Rav's behaviour, but you have to speak up! You will not lose your membership, your seat or any other rights you think you have. Only the board can decide. Demand a kehilla vote! Its your membership fee ( the highest in the neighborhood) that's filling those seats. In no shul in America would this level of control be tolerated. If you want to be an American shul, then act like one. The Rav is your employee, you pay his salary, he is supposed to be fulfilling your needs. That means not being haughty and disdainful when you need help with schools, family issues or chas v'shalom, child abuse. Demand a vote and do the right thing.

  16. anonymous from earlier - they have an email list and I am a member. This way I get to see all their announcements. They also have a few websites, but I check those very infrequently

  17. I was out all day so I am only seeing all these messages now. The purpose of this blog is not to attack Rabbi Malinowitz or anybody else, so enough is enough. The story has been said (I did not witness it myself) and that's it.

    You are all welcome to open your own blogs and attack whomever you desire. I understand some people are upset, I am as well. The story was a shock to me when I heard it. adding to the flames here is not going to help anything, so I request you stop this discussion and either turn it respectful, both to Rav M and to BTYA, or stop it completely.

    It is not censorship - it is stopping lashon ha'ra and lack of decorum. I will nto delete the comments already up, but if they continue I will delete future comments.

  18. Is it really lashon hara to expose fanaticism and sinat chinam? Are there no boundaries for ANY Jews' actions that demand that we speak up even if the Jew in question is a rabbi?

    Hilchot lashon hara were not meant to stifle one's ability to condemn evil.

  19. it has been condemned. plenty. now it is just piling on. with no purpose or benefit.

  20. This is letoelet-Rafi-do you have any suggestions as to how to deal with this problem?

  21. as of right now I do not. I am trying to figure something out, but I havent thought of anything yet that I think will help. I am working on some other things that maybe I can use in a way to figure out this situation, but I am not yet sure how

  22. Stop It AlreadyApril 25, 2010 6:05 PM

    Thank you for stepping in here Rafi.

    It's one thing for people to defend David Morris' good name.

    It's quite another to attack Rav Malinowitz for cursing him out.

    And what this has to do with BTYA - who only heard and saw the incident and (apparently) did nothing?

    Defend and protect David Morris - fine. Period.

  23. Getting a group together to let the rav know that you are not happy with his behavior is not easy, and firing him is probably more difficult.

    If there is an interest, perhaps a meeting of like-minded individuals can be held to discuss. Of course, there is risk of losing anonymity.

  24. The "reigning in" idea does sound like something that might realistically be supported by a majority of the membership.

    I don't think that the "rabbi as absolute ruler no matter what" idea goes over very well.

  25. I think it might be time to disable anonymous posting to your blog. Nobody needs to see the same person post five times anonymously and hijack your threads for their own agenda.

  26. Anyone can sound like a lot of people.

  27. Oh Look Another NameApril 25, 2010 11:28 PM

    By changing their Anonymous name and ranting and ranting and ranting.

  28. Don't let one deranged mind take over your blog.

  29. Sounds like someone has been instructed to delegitimize real opposition to insane actions and make such opposition appear marginal.

    Notice how the second Rafi suggested taking a move to solve the problem, the delegimitizers started to clamor.

  30. Deny all you want! Bury your head in the sand, but don't try and convince an intelligent group of readers that one person wrote all of these! I should know, I wrote ONE of them and was delighted to see that I was not alone in the universe when others felt the same anger and frustration.

  31. Rafi- maybe start showing IP numbers together with comments? that way your readers can see if it's the same computer w/o a brain that used to go on and on about Rabbi Soloveitchik and now is on the topic of Rabbi Malinowitz.

  32. I also identify with those who have condemned extremism. Does anybody in their right mind think that such an attack on an upstanding Jew could occur and everybody would just accept it as daas torah? No we are not all zombies and please stop insulting our intelligence by implying that only one person is outraged.

  33. Rafi - every time there's a discussion which is critical of a certain rabbi, there's one guy who keeps claiming that all the messages are fraudulent, and have been sent by one person.

    This is clearly nonsense.

    And, ironically, he doesn't identify himself, and sends numerous messages saying the same thing.
    ie he's being a nuisance.

    Rafi - Can you politely get him to stop?

  34. And, ironically, he doesn't identify himself,

    talking about ironic! Why don't you, for once, come with a real name ? stop giving yourself different names all the time , you just look silly.

  35. I am sure that the members of Beis Tefilla have been calling David Morris and apologising for the embarrassing incident in their shul.
    What happened is an embarrassment for the whole shul!


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