Sep 10, 2009

Israeli Flag - Out; Christian Cross - In

Kanaim around the world fail to surprise us with their inconsistencies or shock us with their hypocrisy. We are already used to characters like Yisroel Dovid Weiss joining up with left-wing extremists and anarchists to protest Israel.

But we rarely see ironic convergences (Neturei Karta Noam Chomsky) among the "mainstream" extremist factions: Satmar and its friends.

This week was different.

At a protest in Montreal, Quebec, protesters held up signs, in English and French, attacking Israel for its recent crackdown on the hoodlums of the Edah Hacharedis. The signs stated that Israel does not represent the Jewish people and that the state should stop running over charedim (yes, the sign does say that!).

All of this is fine and well -- except that our Satmerer brethren help up the Quebec flag, which also happens to be a "Tzeilem", a cross (see pictures below). According to Wikipedia, the Quebec flag has even more Christian symbolism:

The Fleurdelisé takes its white cross from the ancient royal flags of France and its white fleurs-de-lis and blue field from a banner honouring the Virgin Mary reputedly carried by French-Canadian militia at General Louis-Joseph de Montcalm's victory at Carillon (now Ticonderoga, New York). Contrary to popular belief, the fleurs-de-lis are not taken from the banner of the kings of France, who used golden fleurs-de-lis. The white fleurs-de-lis on Quebec's flag are symbols of purity, which originally represented the Virgin Mary.

Obviously, the history and symbolism of the flag is lost on these Satmarers.

Also lost on them is the irony that they are holding up a symbol of real avodah zara, while attacking the state of Israel, which they think is avodah zara.


  1. When Moshiach does come, they will miss him because...
    they'll be too busy waiting for Moshiach to notice.

  2. Proper flag ettiqute dictates that the flag of the host country must fly higher than other flags. A number of years ago the Jewish schools near Toronto lowered their Canadian flags to half staff but did not lower their Israeli flags. The schools were fined.

    Are you suggesting that there is something wrong with Quebec Jewish community flying the Quebec flag. How about Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Finland etc...?

    Either we hold that at some point a symbol can lose it's original meaning or there are a lot more people to criticize than Jews who create trouble for Israel.

  3. These anti-zionists could really be the erev rov that are keeping the geula from really coming; and the ones that the Baal Shem Tov was so upset about.

  4. Quebec's fleur de lise flag has Christian origins going back to the Christian kings of France! It has Catholic connections. Something ultra-Orthodox Jews should know. Yet to them a flag with a Jewish symbol on it (Israel's flag) is avoda zara!

    Go figure.

  5. Neshama, I think the Neturei Karta and their ilk are ignorant of true Judaism. They don't appreciate the spiritual significance of Israel's rebirth as a nation. Self-hating Jews are by no means found only on the Left.

  6. If you want to be consistent, then displaying a swastika shouldn't be so offensive, since the original meaning of it had nothing to do with Nazism, and it is still used today for many non-nefarious purposes.

    But the truth is, symbols and their connotations change. The flag is just a flag at this point. It's a symbol of Quebec, not Chritianity, its origins notwithstanding.

  7. most people probably have no idea as to the meaning of the symbols. I had no idea until someone pointed it out to me. the only people who know are probably people who study flags and symbols.
    The Satmarers probably also had no idea.
    but it is still ironic that they walk around harping on zionism being idolatry while they are waving the flags with symbols that actually represent idolatry.

  8. I don't think it is unreasonable to learn the origins of your flag in school. In Ulpan we covered the origins of the Israeli flag.

  9. It's actually very, very fitting. These cretons went and started their own religion years ago. Finally, they've found a symbol that appropriately represents them!

    It's time we excise this cancer and stop looking upon them as fellow Jews.

  10. Menachem, they are cherem to righteous Jews after they went to Tehran to legitimate Holocaust Denial. No Jew should have anything to do with them. They are minim who by their own actions have read themselves out of the Jewish people.

    Yoni, what you said is true. Symbols and their context do change with time. Rafi here was pointing out their hypocrisy. Indeed as he says in response, they are endorsing idolatry. It is a sin they commit and the fact they are not aware of it is no excuse since they claim to be particularly close to G-d. The early Zionists may have disdained G-d but in all their work, they served Him. G-d is present in the affairs of this world and its result is Israel.

    Whoever denies this also denies the existence of G-d.

  11. Neshama, they can't be the erev rav because by definition the E.R. are the leaders of klal yisroel. As it says in the pasuk "he put the handmaids...first"GEN 33:2

  12. Whoever denies this also denies the existence of G-d.

    Bulls eye!


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