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Jan 9, 2010
Dybbuk Removal gone all wrong
In what seems to have been a crazy week for Judaism, that brought us back to the olden days of the stories of the 14th and 15 centuries, the week had both a gilgul being calmed and released, and a second attempt (this one not conducted by the modern invention of Skype) at the exorcism of a dybbuk.
The exorcism did not go down well, and again the dybbuk proved to be too powerful for Rav Batzri and his team of kabbalists (ghostbusters? dybbuk removers?), and, according to the reports in the various articles I have read, the dybbuk actually was going to accede to Rav Batzri's exhortations for it to depart from the host body, but was going to do so via the mouth. It seems that an oral extraction is considered dangerous and would have killed the host - reports say that the dybbuk started coming up through the throat, as his voice changed and he started choking, when Rav Batzri screamed at it to go back down and not come out that way but only through his toe.
I guess Rav Batzri was able to convince it to not come out via the mouth, but the second half wasn't so convincing. The dybbuk went back down but also chose not to go out through Rav Batzri's preferred doorway. Instead it stayed in the poor Brazilian fellow.
The week closed with an announcement that Rav Batzri is now afraid for his life, as he is concerned the dybbuk will now attempt to harm him, for his attempts at removal. To thwart off the dybbuk's possible intentions, Rav Batzri went to the beis din of the Eida Haredi and had them issue an excommunication (needui) on the dybbuk. Rav Shternbuch, heading the beis din, acquiesced and issued the needui and declared a prohibition on the dybbuk from harming Rav Batzri.
I don't know why they expect the dybbuk to listen to the needui any more than he refused to listen to the demand for his departure from the host body. Regardless, we are in for another interesting week as Rav Batzri is going to make another attempt at removing the dybbuk in the coming days...
The exorcism did not go down well, and again the dybbuk proved to be too powerful for Rav Batzri and his team of kabbalists (ghostbusters? dybbuk removers?), and, according to the reports in the various articles I have read, the dybbuk actually was going to accede to Rav Batzri's exhortations for it to depart from the host body, but was going to do so via the mouth. It seems that an oral extraction is considered dangerous and would have killed the host - reports say that the dybbuk started coming up through the throat, as his voice changed and he started choking, when Rav Batzri screamed at it to go back down and not come out that way but only through his toe.
I guess Rav Batzri was able to convince it to not come out via the mouth, but the second half wasn't so convincing. The dybbuk went back down but also chose not to go out through Rav Batzri's preferred doorway. Instead it stayed in the poor Brazilian fellow.
The week closed with an announcement that Rav Batzri is now afraid for his life, as he is concerned the dybbuk will now attempt to harm him, for his attempts at removal. To thwart off the dybbuk's possible intentions, Rav Batzri went to the beis din of the Eida Haredi and had them issue an excommunication (needui) on the dybbuk. Rav Shternbuch, heading the beis din, acquiesced and issued the needui and declared a prohibition on the dybbuk from harming Rav Batzri.
I don't know why they expect the dybbuk to listen to the needui any more than he refused to listen to the demand for his departure from the host body. Regardless, we are in for another interesting week as Rav Batzri is going to make another attempt at removing the dybbuk in the coming days...
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please include this. as not all the rabbanim were taken in again with this charade
ReplyDeletehttp://daattorah.blogspot.com/2010/01/rav-sternbuch-dybuk-is-mental-illness.html
interesting. thanks. I had not yet seen the daat torah post.
ReplyDeleteSounds like his wife is better off going to Rav Batzri's Beis Din for her Get than Rav Shternbuch's.
ReplyDeletenot so sure. Rav Batzri hasnt gotten anything out of this guy in two tries so far. who says he'd get a get out of him either? :-)
ReplyDeleteAllow me to clarify:
ReplyDeleteI'm talking about a scenario where he IS willing to give the GET.
If one holds that the guy is nuts, then he's not competent to give a get.
If one holds that he's a ba'al da'as who has become possessed, then min hastam, his Get should be OK.
Forgot to add:
ReplyDeleteSo, his wife is better off going to the Beis Din who thinks he's possessed rather than the one that thinks he's mentally ill.
I hear you. from all I have read, dybbuk is not necessarily active at all times. he can be quiet for a while, during which the guy is perfectly normal. only when dybbuk is active is the guy incapable of anything.
ReplyDeletebut if it is not a dybbuk but he is crazy, as some say, that is a different story. he might even be crazy during quiet times.
right. important addition. BD that thinks he is possessed should allow the get.
ReplyDeleteOn a side not, Does his wife want a get? I have not heard any such demand..
I thought I heard that she was frightened and wanted out.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, I believe that if one holds that he guy is mentally ill, then having quiet moments might not help.
As I said, my advice to the wife is to run to Rav Batzri before he attributes his failure to the fact that it wasn't a dybbuk at all.
A great theatrical show, if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteReality?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventriloquism
BTW, my feed now works. Thanks for alerting me.
Jerusalem - Rav Sternbuch: Brazil Dibuk Story Nothing More Than Mental Illness! http://www.vosizneias.com/46538/2010/01/09/jerusalem-rav-sternbuch-brazil-dibuk-story-noting-more-than-mental-illness/
ReplyDeleteas a chareidi jew myself,i am utterly embarrased and ashamed from these criminaly insane ignorant savages,who have made a mockery out of our beautiful religion and caused one of the biggest chillul hashems in recent history,all these so called kabalists who are involved with this fraud,should either be locked up behind bars or be sent to a mental asylum for the criminaly insane
ReplyDeleteCHAIM
I read that it was the eye - not the throat.
ReplyDeleter batzri likes money and a hot mikva. He used to go to mine until he became a millionair and built his own/fter the first phony dybuk.
ReplyDeleteIlove when these stupid stories come out does enybody realise he's a mentaly ill man his wife should leav him
ReplyDeleteI'm glad at least the goyim in this country can do something normal for world attention like making chummus.
ReplyDeletePart of הלכות עבודה זרה וחקות הגוים ברמב"ם פרק י"א הל' [כ] (טז) : ודברים אלו כולן דברי שקר וכזב הן, והן שהטעו בהן עובדי עבודה זרה הקדמונים לגויי הארצות כדי שינהו אחריהן. ואין ראוי לישראל שהם חכמים מחוכמים להמשך בהבלים האלו, ולא להעלות על הלב שיש בהן תעלה, שנאמר כי לא נחש ביעקב ולא קסם בישראל (במדבר כג כג). ונאמר כי הגוים האלה אשר אתה יורש אותם אל מעוננים ואל קוסמים ישמעו ואתה לא כן נתן לך ה' אלהיך (דברים יח יד
ReplyDelete.(