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Dec 17, 2008

The parts or the whole - which is greater?

It seems nobody in politics can get along.

UTJ confirmed today that they, Degel and Agudah, are considering the possibility of running on seperate tickets. That would be including all ramifications of such a move. Meaning, they would be 2 seperate parties in all respects - seperate representation in the Knesset, with each getting their reps spots on various committees, seperate tickets, etc. It seems they just can't get along and can't overcome the differences.
Will the parts be worth more than the whole or less remains to be seen.

And in other news, the National Zionist parties are duking it out with each other. What was meant to be the all-encompassing NZ party - Bayit Yehudi, or the Jewish Home, has been crumbling ever since the moment it was formed, with all the infighting of the various factions and personalities. Ichud Leumi is threatening to break off.
HaTikva, who never joined the union, is duking it out with them for the same voters. They are calling Bayit Yehudi a party like Kadima but with a kipa, becauseof the moderate leader that was chosen for Bayit Yehudi. Many personalities in the NZ leadership are disturbed by the fact that the leader, Daniel Hershkovitz, is fairly moderate and has promoted co-existence with the Arabs.

It looks like they will do pretty lousy in the elections unless they get their act together quickly. They will go from a party with 9 seats currently, between the factions, to probably something like 4 or 5 unified, as everybody is upset at them for various reasons.
They are an example of the parts being worth more than the whole.

Can't people just get along? Are the differences between them so great? And if yes, why insist on running together anyway?


  1. Isn't achdus a great thing?

  2. sepArate. DiLeMMa.

  3. Looks like the 'whole' isn't so 'whole' anymore.
    We really need a lot of siata d'shmaya!

  4. we should create a public protest, and bombard all parties with faxes, letters, emails etc. stating that we will vote for them (whoever 'them' is...) ONLY if they run together.

  5. they won't believe you. What we have to do is not vote for them this time, and then next time they will realize we are serious

  6. B"H

    Why? Votes and seats.

    A unified message and "working together" for a common goal would also get them votes, because voters might see that they would have the potential to make a difference.

    The lines between Tequmah and NRP are still not as defined as they could be. The same goes for Moledet and HaTikvah.

    They either need to define themselves better or get together,...leaving the NRP in the dust to die, of course.

    Say what you will about Marzel, positive or negative, but I am concerned that he may also lose a seat for the right, as I don't think he'll make the threshold.

    But no one wants to join with him. They think that demonizing him will help them. I'm not so sure.

    I don't think anyone is placing too much importance on the right wing, secular vote, except Netanyahu secretly.

    HaTikvah hasn't really done much publicity. Yet Marzel's charisma is attractive to Beitar Yerushalyim fans and youth.

  7. I don't think that AY and DHT running separately will do too much damage to either of them. They can still have a vote combining agreement between the two, so they won't lose seats. They'll just have to share a seat.

    I don't think they'll get anymore than five. I think some Haredim will vote Likud and secretly for Marzel, even if it's against the wishes of Rabbeim.

  8. there is a very good chance, even if they run together, that AY and GHT will lose at least one seat. People are very upset at them, after the recent municipal elections, both in jerusalem (especially) and in other places.

    A lot of peopl eare talking about voting Shas instead of UTYJ. They would do this because is still a haredi party, so it is a viable option (rather than voting Likud or Marzel - both of which always get some haredi votes)

  9. The issues in UTJ and BhY are very different.
    UTK used to be the sectoral Aguda which now poiltically broke into subsectors (and in the case of Aguda sub-sub sectors). All of them will fight until the last moment but at the last minute they won't shoot themselves in the foot.

    The Dati Leumi issue is must different. Its tzibbur feels uncomfortable with voting for a sectoral party, and thus the party has a hard time packaging itself to its own tzibbur. With moderates and Manhigut backing Likud, they have a hard sell. If they go the EY route they come across as a one issue party, (and some will vote for Marzel anyway), if they don't then Ichud Haleumi types won't like it. The DL can't use their influence in the Likud either, because they aren't organized with the exeption of MY whose to interested in their revolution to deal with the Rabbanut and DL Mosdos.
    BiKitsur Gimmel will get their act together while Habayit Hayehudi won't be the size of a tzimmer.

  10. eli - I read an interesting article recently somewhere. It explained why Mafdal is having such problems now. It described Mafdal as being in a similar situation to Shinui (lehavdil).
    In the sense that it is a victim of it is own success.

    the haredi parties are successful because they fight for their sector, and their sector is mostly very insular. So it perpetuates itself.
    Mafdal on the other hand has fought to bring religion and religious functions to the general state and public domain. They were so successful that now they are basically irrelevant. That is why they have become mostly a one issue party - because all the issues they used to be involved in are no longer issues, for the most part, and all that remains for them are the fight over the settlements.

    This is like Shinui because they were successful in fighting haredi public influence (i,e, Shas) in its time, that people saw no reason to vote for them any longer....

  11. The problem is that neither Mafdal nor (Lhavdil) Shinui, are so successful.
    Shinui's main issue was drafting Yeshiva students, and they did nothing on that score. The DL tzibbur lost the Rabbanut, and the Rabbanut has made themselves a bureaucracy rather than a makom Horaah. The army is trying to force Hesder students to serve with Chilonim (an issue wish Hesder Roshel Yeshiva are divided on , admittedly) and regular non-Hesder soldiers are often forced to serve in mixed units. The list can go on and on how the DL worldview is getting hit and hit, (Shmitta, Charedi Dayanim almost exclusively) despite the fact that most religious people are still DL.

  12. that is all true, but it all happened after the success of the Mafdal, when they had already made themselves irrelevant and a one issue party.

    With Shinui, even though they did not draft the yeshiva bachurim, they did minimize Shas' influence, which was really their greater fight. Since then Shas has regrown, but at the time they were successful.


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